I’m just going to have one story today, as it’s longer than usual and more serious than most. This was sent in by a reader and is an interview she did in 2001 of her father about his involvement in Vietnam and the Counter Culture (such as joining Vietnam Veteran’s Against the War). It’s well worth a read.
I still have a number of more stories left to print for future editions, but I still want more to keep this feature going. So, if you have one, e-mail me with the subject “Military”. Thanks.

David was born in 1950, a middle child of 28 children in a Mormon family, sharing blood with approximately 14 of them. He experienced his childhood in general poverty, moving between living with relatives, orphanages, and Indian reservations. He dropped out of high school in 1969 to enlist in the Army, and served until 1971. In 1974 he married Deborah, and started on his first of three children. In 1976 he joined the Army Reserves. Now he is a computer programming consultant for several companies, and an avid sailboat Captain and sailing instructor.
This interview is being conducted by Megan [his daughter], and it covers the late 1960’s through the early 1970’s, specifically David’s involvement in the Vietnam War and the Counter Culture, as well as the Civil Rights Movement. The Vietnam war was not one that we declared, but one that snowballed out of control. In 1954 the Vietnamese defeated the French, and the Geneva peace conference “temporarily” divided Vietnam into a communist north and a non-communist south, with an election scheduled to elect a single Vietnamese government. The United States then organized SEATO, the Southeast Asia Treaty Organization to contain Asia. In 1964 Congress passed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, authorizing the President to wage undeclared war. By 1966 America had 275,000 combat troops in Vietnam, one year later that number totaled 485,000, and in 1969 the number reached it’s maximum of 543,000. At the same time a new lottery system was created to reduce the number of draftees by two thirds, and Congress repealed the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution the next year. A cease fire began on January 27, 1973 confirming the American withdrawal from Vietnam. The Counter Culture consisted of several different types of ideas, but most of the people involved were known as hippies. Those who were seriously involved in the counter culture shunned the middle class American way of life, while many were kids expressing their personal alienation by sampling drugs and listening to psychedelic music. The Civil Rights movement also occurred in this era, allowing for minorities such as Blacks and Women to finally voice their oppression to an audience.
DAVID. I dropped out of the 11th grade in high school to enlist for three years in the Army. I was stationed in Vietnam for 3 combat tours. A combat tour is 6 months long. While in Vietnam, I joined an organization named ‘Vietnam Veterans Against the War’. You may directly infer from this that the counter culture was even having an impact over there. I used to joke with people after returning to “The World” that perhaps we could have won the war if I hadn’t been a doper over there. In retrospect, it may not have been such a joke. A lot of us were users of something or other. It was all cheap and super easy to get. It is real likely that it was so readily available because our adversaries were the principal suppliers. My rank was Sergeant E-5. Job description – Radio Teletype Operator Team Chief – Skill Development Base. This last thing meant that my non-commissioned officer rank was awarded me by attending school as apposed to earning it in the field. While stationed overseas, I never worked at the job I was trained for. Instead, the positions I held were as follows: Telephone lineman – String wire on telephone poles, Water truck driver, NCO in charge of company communications, Door Gunner on Huey helicopters (not gun ships), Manager of unapproved company level NCO lounge, Stock control clerk – Inventory guy.
Received honorable discharge in 1971 but there was a code on my discharge papers that marked me as a doper. After marrying your mom, I re-enlisted in the Army reserve as a computer programming specialist. Received a truly honorable discharge with no little codes marking me as a bad guy. However, the job description I held required a security clearance which I never could get. When a government tells you to turn yourself in and they won’t hold it against you; they are lying.
MEGAN. What caused you to drop out of high school and join?
DAVID. Hormones, a constant war with your grandmother, three older brothers had been in Army, school sucks, no role models, hated getting up in morning.
MEGAN. What changed between when you dropped out and when you joined Vietnam Veterans Against the War that made you change your mind?
DAVID. Peer pressure. Being in country. Immature before I enlisted; a different kind of immature when I joined VVAW.
MEGAN. Were you a minority or a majority for choosing to go instead of being drafted?
DAVID. The majority of enlisted people were drafted.
MEGAN. From the list of positions you gave me, why did you go from what I assume to be an honor of being a non commissioned officer to a manager of a lounge to stocking shelves?
DAVID. In all cases, I kept the NCO rank. The positions were various jobs I was assigned to. The short answer is that I wasn’t reliable, trustworthy, or capable. The actual jobs I did can’t really be ranked in an apples to apples comparison. The NCO lounge manager was the best job I did; right up to where I quit. The most fun was the door gunner job. I had left out NCOIC (NCO in charge) of communications.
MEGAN. Did the training you received in school start you in the field of computers that you are currently in?
DAVID. No. Had an interest in them; probably because I don’t like arithmetic. Went to a computer technical school after I left the service the first time. I had used up all my unemployment from being in the service; all the money I’d saved in the service, and the GI bill was the only source of money available at the time short of getting a job.
MEGAN. What specifically was your involvement in the Vietnam Veterans Against the War?
DAVID. Just sent money for membership and joined. No active participation.
MEGAN. Did it effect the way others on your tours treated you?
DAVID. No. Didn’t really advertise joining.
MEGAN. How did getting dope from the enemies work? How did you know when to buy from them vs. when to fight them?
DAVID. The enemy and the friendly all looked alike. Drugs were purchased on the black market. It was pretty much the same kind of supply chain that exists in the U.S. for buying drugs today.
MEGAN. What was the general opinions of the other soldiers of the Vietnam war?
DAVID. I can’t answer this. I think the majority were level headed conscientious people doing what was required of them. Just a way higher percentage than normal either did dope or booze.
MEGAN. What was your opinion on the war?
DAVID. Came away believing that the only way of winning a war was total annihilation of your enemy. That is every mother, father, son, or daughter that is your enemy or can grow up to be your enemy must die. This proposes a dilemma. How can you wage war and be humane?
MEGAN. Is this what decided you against the war?
DAVID. No. Total lack of support of the U.S. at virtually every level; including our government.
MEGAN. Did the Vietnam war make you more politically aware?
DAVID. Not really. I’m still not very astute.
MEGAN. What were your main objectives over there?
DAVID. I personally had no objectives. It is a side affect of being a doper.
MEGAN. What was a typical day like, what did each job entail?
DAVID. Hot. Wet. Finding drugs. Buying drugs. Using drugs.
MEGAN. Was there any protesting taking place?
DAVID. Not that I was aware of.
MEGAN. Did you ever refuse to perform an assignment?
DAVID. No. You can be totally incompetent in the military so long as you are never insubordinate.
MEGAN. Did anyone over there foreign or domestic agree with the U.S.
presence?
DAVID. Someone must have.
MEGAN. Were Vietnamese women as readily available as the movies portrayed them to be?
DAVID. Probably more so.
MEGAN. How and Did the war change you?
DAVID. To the extent that it got me off the Indian reservation and out into the world, it changed me a lot.
MEGAN. Did you ever have to take life?
DAVID. Don’t know. Shot up a lot of trees and rocks when I was a door gunner though.
MEGAN. Did it get easier to take life over time?
DAVID. Seems to me that however much you respect your own life and place value on it determines how easy it would be to takes someone else’s. Two things muddy this up a little. They are an innate fear of the unknown after death or if you can hate someone else enough to take the one truly precious thing they have. This latter was said well by Clint Eastwood in the movie Unforgiven. He tells the kid that killing is taking from a man all was, is, or will ever be. I am paraphrasing here. Watch the movie; the actual quote is better.
MEGAN. Were you ever concerned that civilian life was being taken?
DAVID. No. Civilian life is really a funny sort of concept. If your politicians and your taxes support your military; if you support the actions of your military; just how civilized are you?
MEGAN. Was the war what you were bargaining for when you signed up?
DAVID. Since I wasn’t bright enough to foresee any future for myself, there was nothing that I was bargaining for.
MEGAN. How would you compare the military then as to now?
DAVID. I really can’t. I have no expertise on today’s military. It seems to be far more high tech and there appears to be a desire to wage war without casualties. We don’t seem to want to fight.
MEGAN. Do you see any similarities between then and what is happening now?
DAVID. Yes. We weren’t committed to winning at any cost then or now. Nor were we in Korea or the Gulf war. We essentially have lost every war we have fought in since WW2. We claim victories in every engagement except Vietnam but in truth, the same enemies with the same agendas are still there and fighting against us even after we call ourselves winners and go home.
MEGAN. What do you think of our governments handling of foreign relations?
DAVID. I am far more impressed with the foreign relations of Ghengis Khan, or the Roman empire with their 500 years of peace, or the British government when they dominated the oceans of the entire world for as many years. When a Roman Centurion was killed, ten of the Roman enemy was killed to avenge his death. That was foreign policy. If we implemented that policy after 09/11/2001, that would require us to kill 60,000 of those aligned against us. So… Is that justice? Bin Lauden believes so. How best can we demonstrate to him the consequences of his beliefs?
MEGAN. How did your service to our country effect your life?
DAVID. Got me away from home. Got me the GI bill for education. Afforded me the opportunity to go down a path that didn’t exist where and when I grew up. Was able to pass GED test for high school. Don’t believe I ever would have completed conventionally. Picture yourself in my place with no one pressuring you to finish.
MEGAN. Did it make your more responsible, compassionate, bitter, etc…?
DAVID. Marriage is what really did all those things for me. Until then I was pretty much a tumbleweed with IQ to match.
MEGAN. Would you recommend the service for today’s youth? Why or why not?
DAVID. Yes. Everyone needs to work. I’m all in favor of anyone that wants adventure and can’t afford to pay for it, joining. It would be good for some, bad for some, but at least they’d know.
MEGAN. Where do you think you would be in your life had you not joined?
DAVID. This is a fallacy of logic called arguing from a hypothesis. It is equally feasible that I could have become a felon, or a teacher, or a mercenary, or a street person.
MEGAN. What was your opinion of how Americans received the returning veterans?
DAVID. I never took it personally though I know that many did.
MEGAN. How were you received personally by those that knew you?
DAVID. Like a returning soldier that they were proud of and glad was back.
Particularly since some thought I was a far better candidate for jail when I went in.
MEGAN. Did you lose many friends to the war?
DAVID. Every friend I made that I lost track of was lost. None died that I’m aware of.
MEGAN. What about the vietnam war makes it hard for you to talk about?
DAVID. Nothing any more.
MEGAN. What do you think makes it hard for others to talk about their experiences?
DAVID. Either shocked at what they did; didn’t do, saw, didn’t see, behaved, didn’t behave. A saturday evening sitting in front of the TV getting fat may well kill you, but it surely doesn’t test your fiber or beliefs.
MEGAN. Did doing the drugs make it easier or harder to cope in retrospect?
DAVID. People who do drugs aren’t really coping; they are turning their brain off.
MEGAN. Was that your opinion then?
DAVID. Yes.
MEGAN. Were you involved with the counter culture before leaving for the war?
DAVID. No.
MEGAN. When you came home?
DAVID. I moved in those circles but was pretty much outside them too.
Harken back to image of brainless tumbleweed.
MEGAN. Did the civil rights movement of the 60s affect you? How?
DAVID. Yes. Not directly. Didn’t consider it my problem. Was perfectly willing to believe black people did have a problem.
MEGAN. Did your beliefs mirror those of the counter culture?
DAVID. Probably not. My favorite author was Ayn Rand.
MEGAN. Were you involved in the war when the Viet Congs Tet offensive
occurred?
DAVID. Tet offensive was 1968. I joined 1969. First tour in Nam was early 1970. This was an event that even me in my turned off ignore everything daze was aware of.
MEGAN. Was it a factor in your joining the VVAW?
DAVID. No.
MEGAN. Do you remember Martin Luther Kingπs assassination? And how did if effect you and those around you?
DAVID. Yes. Not at all. I didn’t identify with people who were passionate enough to assassinate someone nor with the victims either.
MEGAN. Was there racial tension over there?
DAVID. Perhaps. My black friends could call me a honky because I didn’t care but I couldn’t call them niggers because they did care.
MEGAN. What was your opinion of Nixon and his foreign policies?
DAVID. Voted for him every time he ran from when I was in the 6th grade.
Would have voted for him again.
MEGAN. Did you get to watch Armstrong walk on the moon when your were over there?
DAVID. Saw the TV pictures. Your grandmother never did believe it was real.
MEGAN. What was your most dangerous assignment/ job?
DAVID. Door gunner.
MEGAN. What made the door gunner job the most fun, if fun can be used to describe anything that went on?
DAVID. Why did you like jumping out of a plane or being at the helm with a rail buried in the water?
MEGAN. Did you use the same guns as Rambo?
DAVID. Don’t know what Rambo used. Used an M60 machine gun mounted on a pivot with butterfly triggers and every 5th round of 7.62mm ammo a tracer.
MEGAN. Same gun. Were you ever in any harry situations? What happened?
DAVID. Not really. They mortered the flight line a mile away while an idiot Sgt. 1st class had us all standing in close formation to give us hell for not going to the bunkers. Airlifted a Thai soldier out of an LZ once that was shot in the back pretty bad. I fired a lot of suppression fire with no one firing back. Almost crashed a helicopter once because I didn’t tell the pilot he was letting the tail come around to engage a tree. It was my job to do that but even now I have a tendency to just let a bad thing happen and see how it comes out.
MEGAN. Do you owe your life to anyone, or does anyone owe you their life?
What happened?
DAVID. Sure. My family, those that brought me and those that I leave.
Especially you. You are my future and my pride.
MEGAN. Do you feel anger against our government for lying to you about disclosing your drug use?
DAVID. Not at all. They really had no choice either.
MEGAN. What were you at war with Grandma about?
DAVID. She was a bright headstrong willful person who had been kicked in the teeth her entire life. I inherited many of her tendencies.
MEGAN. Do you ever wish you had stayed home and finished high school?
DAVID. Not really.
MEGAN. What kind of immature were you when you joined the VVAW? Are you mature now?
DAVID. Well, obviously, the same kind as you. I couldn’t formulate a tactful question, even if it was a multiple choice question with one answer given. Is it true that is how they get you artist types to pass tests in college? Now I am very mature because you can no longer get me to rise to the bait of this kind of question.