I plan to keep up this “Frank Reads the Bible” series going as it is finally motivating me to read the Bible cover to cover with intense interest (you need to pay attention to make jokes). I think I should clarify where I’m coming from, though. I find the beginning of the Bible (Genesis) immensely silly… both logically and theologically. It sounds just like the ridiculous mythology from many other cultures of why it rains and where does the sun come from. Also, it’s hard for me to believe that God, the Creator of the universe, the most powerful Being that could possibly exist, went about things in such an asinine fashion.
That said, for the purpose of this series, I’m accepting everything at face value.
Now here is where I’m going to do some preaching and probably rub some people the wrong way (SarahK included). I think all this arguing about how many animals can fit into how many cubits and how all of creation really did just drop out of the sky hurts Christianity.
We have Jesus, the son of God walking among man and delivering messages of immeasurable value, and, having that, I don’t give a rats ass about the validity of Genesis. It’s piddling crap in comparison. Jesus showed me my value and my worth, and the exact details of how humanity came about thousands or millions of years ago will not affect that. Furthermore, the more time spent arguing about it, the more people think Christians are loons and the less time Jesus’s word gets spread.
I’ve gone to the sites mentioned by a few readers trying to combine science with the idea the world is only thousands of years old, and its horrid. The human mind is a powerful thing; if it starts with something it believes as fact, it can manipulate any evidence into supporting that “fact.” Real science involves collecting data and then making a conclusion. Now, there is plenty of bad science that doesn’t involve religion, but I’ve hardly seen any good science that does (good science with religion is studying whether people who pray heal faster — which only proves what it states to prove, not whether God exists or if He actually hears our prayers).
Now, I’d take the Bible more seriously on issues of science if God sat down and explained Newtonian physics to Moses, but He doesn’t. It’s not His modus operandi. If he was going to leave fossils that proved his existence, He might as well appear in the sky and shout, “Booga! Booga!” so we all know He’s there’s and believe in Him. Instead, God made all our laws of science and seems to stick to them (Jesus’s resurrection would be glaring example against that, but you’ll never find anyone prove scientifically that it happened). In the end, faith has to come from the heart, not geological evidence.
Anyhoo, Derbyshire recently dealt with a similar issue and I think his view is worth reading. Next, I’ll be getting back to finishing Genesis as I know the Tower of Babel is coming up, and, if I can’t make a good joke about that, I’m not Frank J.
Well, there was my– let’s see– 47 cents on the issue.
Now cast your stones.
Keep in mind the bible was created by Man, not God. That makes it suspect right from the start.
Oh and first…..:)
Well, I think God was first, but anyhowdeehoo, a couple quotes from Albert:
God does not play dice with the universe.
– Albert Einstein
Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.
– Albert Einstein
Almost first! & sorry to be serious, but Genesis is allegory, like Animal Farm. Everything in it is actually a put down of the snake cults that were in the near east at the time. The cults had preistesses who hallucinated on snake venom and fortold the future based on their trip. They also had sacred trees. So in Genesis, the sacred tree screws you, snakes are the lowest form of life and it is all Eve’s fault. For background read the book “When God was a Woman”.
Elder: You have been found guilty by the elders of the town of uttering the name of our lord, and so as a BLASPHEMER…
Crowd: Ooooh.
Elder: …you are to be stoned to death.
(The crowd look anxious to kill Mathias)
Mathias: Look. I’d had a lovely supper, and all I said to my wife was ‘That piece of hallibut was good enough for Jehovah’.
Crowd: Oooooooh!
Elder: BLASPHEMY!!!! He said it again!
(link)
Eh, you’re mining Genesis for humor. Folks with strong faith can take it. Those with weaker faith need a little less skewering of the fundamentals of their belief. But since you’re doing this for the humor and not as a theological or pedagogical exercise, have fun and no worries. It’s not like it’s never been done before…
…blasphemer!!
well said, and keep on with the series, it’s highly enjoyable
I tend to agree with Frank about what is most important in the Bible. After you understand who Christ was and why he came, I don’t really care what you think about the rest of the bible, you are still a “brother/sister” to me. That said, I don’t think that genesis is that farfetched. I’m not exactly a scientist, but from what I understand, they don’t have any better explanations for what happened…they continue to be unable to find a starting point for the universe, and most of their ideas about how everything began is just conjecture, as far as I know. As far as I know, the only being present at the begining was God, so I’ll take his word on how he did it.
And even though it is true that the bible was written by the hand of a man, that man was told (in some way) by God what to write.
also, I’m looking forward to when you get to Leviticus, should be interesting, and don’t forget the sheer excitement that is Numbers
Am I going to need my graphing calculator for Numbers?
I used to think of genesis as allegory myself, but i read a book called “The Science of God” by the physicist Dr. Gerald Schreoder which really opened up my eyes. He explains, among other things, how the account of the creation in the universe in Genesis can be reconciled with currently accepted scientific theories of the creation and age of the universe. I highly reccomend it.
Frank;
No, you will need Excel 2003 on a P4E box…anything less and you’ll be in trouble.
In other news:
Discovery Institute put out “The Privledged Planet.” I saw it in Tampa and it basically says God did some way cool stuff to make this chunk of rock liveable….
Let us not forget that Jesus’ teachings went almost entirely against the common perception of God at the time. Back then, God was a vengeful, wrathful God who would smite thee verily. Jesus changed that. I think the only reason we as christians even keep the old testament is due to the fact that:
a) there is some good stuff in there like the Ten Commandments, and
b) to remind us that God isn’t above laying down a little righteous fire to punish the wicked.
On a different note, I can’t wait for Frank J. to get to “The Song of Solomon.” That whole book is like one big love ballad…
“I’ve gone to the sites mentioned by a few readers trying to combine science with the idea the world is only thousands of years old, and its horrid. The human mind is a powerful thing; if it starts with something it believes as fact, it can manipulate any evidence into supporting that “fact.” Real science involves collecting data and then making a conclusion. Now, there is plenty of bad science that doesn’t involve religion, but I’ve hardly seen any good science that does”
A close look at the science behind evolution reveals it’s religious nature as well.
“Now, I’d take the Bible more seriously on issues of science if God sat down and explained Newtonian physics to Moses, but He doesn’t.”
If Noah built an ark the way he was supposed to, that would indicate a pretty good knowledge of some physics.
Psalms107:
23They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters;
24These see the works of the LORD, and his wonders in the deep.
There is lots of evidence of creation in nature.
W
How many people figure they’d live their lives the same without religion?
Me, Yeah, I believe so.
“And on the Eighth day, Hallowed created Rock n’ Roll, and it was good.
And on the Ninth day, he created the Frank J, and it was also good.
And on the Eleventh day, having skipped the Tenth day because it was leap year, Hallowed created the Giants.
And the Giants were not actual Giants, like Titans, or Dinosaurs or Lawrence Taylor. No, these Giants were Frank J’s Balls.
And on the Twelfth day, Frank J and his Giant Balls did begin blogging about religion.
And on the Fourteenth day, having skipped the Thirteenth day because it was unlucky, Hallowed did say unto Frank J, ‘Good luck with that, Dude. You really got a pair!'”
Actually, Revelations is pretty wierd, but let’s not get ahead of ourselves.
While we’re quoting Monty Python:
“He’s not the Messiah. He’s a very naughty boy!”
I have three books you need to read,
The Science of God;
The Hidden Face of God:Science Reveals the Ultimate Truth;
Genesis and the Big Bang Theory: The Discovery of Harmony Between Modern Science and the Bible.
All were written by Gerald Schroeder, these books helped me get past my own metaphysical doubts about God.
But I don’t have any doubts about God!
Doubting period was some time ago and I got through it.
Although I love reading the funny stuff here, this is one of my favorite posts you’ve done Frank and I can certainly agree with the silliness of Genesis. But if it were written like a technical manual of how God created everything no one would read it. And if you can’t snag em in the first chapter or 2, they’re going to put the book down.
I don’t agree with Frank. He’s flat out wrong.
You all should be worshipping me. I made the earth and the whole freaking universe. Prove it, I hear you say? Well, look at the earth, look at a cell, look how freaking complex a mere cell is. You think that came about by chance? HAH!
Cells. All Poosh.
I am the first cause! The unmoved mover and, OMG does anyone here watch Desperate Housewives? It’s real big over in the the UK! I SWEAR it has conservative undertones, which makes me a happy Pooshy. Awesome show.
“The mill’s closed. There’s no more work. We’re destitute… So I have no choice but to sell you all for scientific experiments.”
(CHILDREN): “Ohhh”
“I’m sorry, my little loves, but that’s the way it is. Blame the Catholic Church for not letting me wear one of those little rubber things.”
I have doubts.
Right. But except for the roads, and Aquaducts, and schools, and no disease, and security…WHAT HAVE THE ROMANS EVER DONE FOR US!
” Jesus showed me my value and my worth”. Very well put, Frank. That is all that matters.
ps – the thomas comment made me roar with laughter.
Heidi
Cheer up, Frank!
You’re Catholic: you’re free to believe in evolution (“It’s more than just a theory,” says Il Papa).
You’re also free to see the Old Testament as largely metaphor. There just plain aren’t many magisterial declarations regarding the first few books of the Bible.
“Seminarians love Frank J. and Sarah K.!”
Well I have always believed that
when the Scientists cross over that
final “hill of knowledge” the will
come face-to-face with the Creator!!
I can’t help myself…
From “Life of Brian”
“Brian: I’m not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!
Brian: Now, f*** off!
[silence]
Arthur: How shall we f*** off, O Lord?”
Priceless…
Frank – St Augustine said something along those lines in De Genesi ad litteram.
“It very often happens that there is some question as to the earth or the sky, or the other elements of this world, respecting which one who is not a Christian has knowledge derived from most certain reasoning or observation, and it is very disgraceful and mischievous and of all things to be carefully avoided, that a Christian speaking of such matters as being according to the Christian Scriptures, should be heard by an unbeliever talking such nonsense that the unbeliever perceiving him to be as wide of the mark as east from west, can hardly restrain himself from laughing.
And the real evil is not that a man is subjected to derision because of his error, but it is that to profane eyes, our authors (that is to say, the sacred authors) are regarded as having had such thoughts; and are also exposed to blame and scorn upon the score of ignorance, to the greatest possible misfortune of people whom we wish to save.
For, in fine, these profane people happen upon a Christian busy in making mistakes on a subject which they know perfectly well; how, then, will they believe these holy books? How will they believe in the resurrection of the dead and in the hope of life eternal, and in the kingdom of heaven, when, according to an erroneous assumption, these books seem to them to have as their object those very things which they, the profane, by their direct experience or by calculation which admits of no doubt?
It is impossible to say what vexation and sorrow prudent Christians meet with through these presumptuous and bold spirits who, taken to task one day for their silly and false opinion, and realizing themselves on the point of being convicted by men who are not obedient to the authority of our holy books, wish to defend their assertions so thoughtless, so bold, and so manifestly false.
For they then commence to bring forward as a proof precisely our holy books, or again they attribute to them from memory that which seems to support their opinion, and they quote numerous passages, understanding neither the texts they quote, nor the subject about which they are making statement.”
You’re both right on the mark in my book.
Chris: You owe me a new keyboard. The eleventh day killed me!
Paraphrasing some thoughts by Paul in Corinthians, Jonathan Edwards and RC Sproal
the extraordinary gifts are the ones that get the most attention but the one that counts to Jesus is the ordinary gift…the Holy Spirit sheds love into the hearts of every true Christian. That is an ordinary gift that we all have as believers. You can have every extraordinary gift in practice, charity, works, you can give your life for another…Change your outward appearances in all ways to seemingly conform…but living life in a spirit of love given to you by God is what is important to him…it is what is most important because some will qualify on every outward appearance and still be rejected by Him who sees and judges our hearts
I don’t want to get into a religious scuffle, but it says in the Bible, that the Bible is the word of God. Written by man with the divine inspiration of God. It’s not like a bunch of guys just got together to write a book.
And there is scientific evidence that supports creation more than evolution.
By the way….I think you should write a comic about Ward Churchill and call it “The hate-filled-lefty goes to college”.
Sorry Tracey!
well, well well… Frank J the almost believer.
So if Jesus were to show up and say boogah boogah would you belive? How about if he showed up and said, “All that stuff about Noah, I meant it.”
Matt 24:37-40
37 But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.38 For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark,39 and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be.
NKJV
I remember taking a class on this type of thing in college. One of the more believable theories is that the writers of much of the Old Testament were taking the writings of other religions and replacing their deity with God. Not to steal their ideas, but to correct them. Sort of like saying, “No you idiots, it’s not Ra who created everything, it was God” –only more nicely put.
OOH and how about Hate Filled Lefty Goes to Church? He could be smited by G-O-D!
I agree whole heartedly with your statement Frank, about the important idea to grasp is the message. I have read the Bible cover to cover several times. I have read the Koran, and I have read the Book of Mormon. (A good read even if you are not a Mormon.) Although some of the facts differ, as do the differing religions, all of these books agrees on the importance of how we treat others and our importance in God’s eyes. Each of these religions teaches peace. It is only in the fanatics that we get the wars, and hatred.
Every religion “fundamentally” believes that their religion is the true religion. Fine, believe that, but if you are not living up to what you believe, if you are not acting upon your faith, it isn’t doing you much good. You may as well quit, and go off a whoring.
OMG-Jesus said “the only way to the father is through me” “I am the way” “Who believes in me will have eternal life” “Before Abraham “I AM””
Neither the book or mormon or the Koran teach that. Lets not forget tolerance here tolerance means those three book disagree. Because either Jesus was who he said or he was an insane freak with telapathic mind control powers.
Frank, I’m going to have to say that, well, first off you aren’t being very elegant about your words; second, you seem to be taking kind of the narrow-view of Christianity.
I agree that Christian evangelism should focus on Christ, but why diss other forms of evangelism?
Personally, I am presently pursuing Ph.D.s in math and physics with the express goal of advancing evangelism in the sciences, and using science for evangelism. I think there is real merit in using physical evidence to convince people of the Way. Some people are simply more swayed by hard facts than moral and spiritual arguments.
Admittedly, geology and paleontology are not exactly the jackpot for Christians in terms of evangelization, but I have heard of at least several people coming to God after being astounded by the complexity of cellular machinery and biological design. And archaeology has always been a boon for Christianity (and Judaism), verifying the existence of the vast majority of people, places, and historical events mentioned in the Bible.
Check out the International Society for Complexity, Information, and Design if you want example of mathematically rigorous papers. I will be the first to say that these only point people in the right direction, they are not bottom-up proof of Christianity.
But I think you are being a bit hasty in dismissing people who have grounded their belief in God in somewhat different things than you have.
And all the little Darwin fishies will have to be converted to alien spaceship fishies…
My wife’s birthday is always just a couple days from Mother’s day and it ticks her off.
You think Jesus ever got bummed because he was born on Christmas?
Chris,
No, I’m pretty sure Jesus was okay about being born on Christmas… The fact that he was crusified 3 days before Easter tho…
Really, holidays really suck for him. Wonder if he always gets depressed around holidays…
There are not enough stars in the sky to count the number of people I’ve known in my life who would be outraged by your post. Being the heretic I was proudly raised to be……….I loved it. Imagine, you got right down to the heart of the matter without years of cemetary, I mean seminary. Please don’t tell me you’re starting your own church. That always ruins everything!
Blah, blah, blah. Just make with the funny.
preach on, brother!
As wrong as the specifics of Genesis are, it’s striking how right it is in general terms – universe has a beginning, energy existed before matter, there are universal physical laws, etc.
“…But if it were written like a technical manual of how God created everything no one would read it.”
I agree with xtremerightwing.net on the size issue
Could you imagine the size of the Bible if it explained every little detail?? it would be like huge. But you can carry the Bible with you and have the right amount of information to declare the good news. The size of the Bible in your hands is in fact, a miracle.
When it comes to the nature of the Bible, the best explanation I ever heard came from a youth minister. The Bible isn’t history or an instruction manual, he said, it’s a love letter from God to us.
(and yes, I know about all the sticky bloody nasty parts in the Old Testament. The kind of love he was talking about, though, wasn’t the gooshy Hallmark valentine variety; it was the “I would die–and have died–for you” type.)
Nothing in the above statement, however, should stop Frank J. from making funny with the Tower of Babel. Presumably he will discover the origin of the Muckadoo language in that entry.
I don’t pretend to know what you’re reasons are for continuing this unfunny charade, Frank, but I’ve about had enough of it. In fact, in light of your stated intention to continue, I’m de-linking IMAO from my blog.
Steve Bragg
DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS
Frank, you can’t please everyone, all the time.
P.S. – suggestion, read the bible with your heart, not your brain. You’ll get a lot more out of it.
Pz
Hey, it’s called “faith” for a reason! And I think the Frank reads the bible posts are hilarious! Keep up the good work!
Scientific Facts in the Bible
1. Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. Here, Scripture tells us that the “things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.”
2. Medical science has only recently discovered that blood-clotting in a newborn reaches its peak on the eighth day, then drops. The Bible consistently says that a baby must be circumcised on the eighth day.
3. At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth’s free float in space: “He…hangs the earth upon nothing” (Job 26:7).
4. The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: “It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth” (Isaiah 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptic maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed that the earth was flat, is was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.
5. God told Job in 1500 B.C.: “Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?” (Job 38:35). The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement–that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But did you know that radio waves travel at the speed of light? This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn’t discover this until 1864 when “British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing” (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia).
6. Job 38:19 asks, “Where is the way where light dwells?” Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a “way,” traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
7. Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7: “When the morning stars sang together…”
8. “Most cosmologists (scientists who study the structures and evolution of the universe) agree that the Genesis account of creation, in imagining an initial void, may be uncannily close to the truth” (Time, Dec. 1976).
9. Solomon described a “cycle” of air currents two thousand years before scientists “discovered” them. “The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits” (Ecclesiastes 1:6).
10. Science expresses the universe in five terms: time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 B.C.: “In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter] . . . And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters.” The first thing God tells man is that He controls of all aspects of the universe.
11. The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body’s mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were “bled,” and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood.”
12. All things were made by Him (see John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15–24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called “behemoth.” Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo’s tail isn’t like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are the characteristics of this huge animal: It was the largest of all the creatures God made; was plant-eating (herbivorous); had its strength in its hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, “He that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.” In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.
13. Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent. Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: “And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself even days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean” (Leviticus 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under “running water.”
14. Luke 17:34–36 says the Second Coming of Jesus Christ will occur while some are asleep at night and others are working at daytime activities in the field. This is a clear indication of a revolving earth, with day and night at the same time.
15. “During the devastating Black Death of the fourteenth century, patients who were sick or dead were kept in the same rooms as the rest of the family. People often wondered why the disease was affecting so many people at one time. They attributed these epidemics to ‘bad air’ or ‘evil spirits.’ However, careful attention to the medical commands of God as revealed in Leviticus would have saved untold millions of lives. Arturo Castiglione wrote about the overwhelming importance of this biblical medical law: ‘The laws against leprosyin Leviticus 13 may be regarded as the first model of sanitary legislation’ (A History of Medicine).” Grant R. Jeffery, The Signature of God With all these truths revealed in Scripture,how could a thinking person deny that the Bible is supernatural in origin? There is no other book in any of the world’s religions (Vedas, Bhagavad-Gita, Koran, Book of Mormon, etc.) that contains scientific truth. In fact, they contain statements that are clearly unscientific. Hank Hanegraaff said, “Faith in Christ is not some blind leap into a dark chasm, but a faith based on established evidence.”
I love copy and paste.
By the way, I believe the Bible is extremely important from the first word to the last and so did Jesus. In fact, Jesus used the Old Testament in His teaching and it would be wrong to disregard it today.
Frank, I love your bible posts. I think it gives us readers an opportunity to see into your heart and soul and I like that. I come here for the funny, and I leave thinking I should dust off my bible tonight…thanks.
So much to say, so little room.
Remember: a day to God can be more than 24 hours. Science backs up the order of how things were created.
The fruit was a way for Adam and Eve to show that they acknowledged God’s right to rule them. “You have everything you need, this in mine, leave it alone, this is my law to you.”
The rain: remember the watery expanse around the earth? Gen 1:6-8. There was a division afterwards between the waters on earth, before, a division between the waters on earth and above. So, it’s possible that there was a sphere of water above the earth. Which would have created a greenhouse affect and caused the vegetation to grow faster than it does now. Anyway, the flood. We hear about the ice age – but was there one? Or, was the earth flatter at first and it was the flooding that caused mountains to be pushed upwards? How tall were the mountains then compared to afterwards? (Would a torrent of water better explain why animals are found like they were in the middle of eating – not a slow freezing?)
The bible tells about Cain and Able because they are the next two characters to play a pivotal part. Adam and Eve had more children and yes -they married each other and had children. (Gen. 5:4 Meanwhile Adam father sons and daughters.)
Angels took the form of man and had sex with women who gave birth to the giants. It’s not like they were 100 feet tall, just much larger than the average person.
Genesis is nothing like myths. There’s no giant turtles that haul the earth around – the bible taught the earth was round loooong before “modern man” believed it.
I know there was something else I wanted to say a sentance or two on but can’t remember what it was.
Why I believe in Jesus…
By George P Carter
Why do I believe in Jesus? I believe in Jesus because only Jesus has the answer to mans’ sin. In a world filled with death, despair, and destruction, Science simply cannot answer the questions that every man and women must answer for themselves. Questions such as why I am here, how did I get here, and what will happen when I die. Evolution will give you an explanation how you evolved into the person you are today. Apart from science, religions from different parts of the world will tell you how much work you need to do before you die and enter a state of nothingness, nirvana, or become a part of the force. Yet Jesus elevates far above the fallacies of science and the never-ending work of Religions. More so Jesus is not a religion and science has no hold on him; Jesus is the everlasting Life from which a fallen people can be redeemed, for he will bring us goodness and light.
Science will give you a theory about how nothing became a intricate and complex universe yet Jesus affirms that he was their from the beginning of time, Hinduism says you need to live a million lives of suffering before you can be liberated from anguish and union with Brahma but Jesus says come home child for I have already suffered for you. Buddhism tells you to walk it off but Jesus walks with you. Some will say all knowledge is unattainable but Jesus says know the truth and it will set you free.
Historians don’t deny that Jesus walked this earth in fact history affirms that Jesus was a real man. Critics’ debate about whom exactly Jesus was but his disciples had no doubt that he was the Son of God, so much so that they were willing to die horrendously at the hands of their oppressors. Give me one example of a man who will is willing to die for something he knows is lie, you can’t do it because no one is willing to die for what he knows is untrue. Therefore one cannot believe that all of Jesus’ disciples were willing to be martyred to prosper a lie. One can say many things about the disciples and claim that his disciples were liars. It’s easy for one to examine the disciples as if they were insincere but imagine the ramifications if those disciples were sincere and in fact telling the truth.
Why do I believe in Jesus, well first look at the Bible; a composition of 66 books authored by 40 different people in different parts of the world over a period of 1500 years yet it all it all points to one Man, one God, Jesus Christ. Everything in the Old Testament points forward to the cross and everything in the New Testament points back to the cross[1], and on that Cross the blood of an innocent man was shed for the guilty so that guilty may be freed from the wages of sin. For the wages of sin is death[2] and only in Jesus Christ we find life we find hope we find mercy.
Yet there are still those who say Jesus was just a good moral teacher, as C.S. Lewis would say, he didn’t leave us that option. Call him a Lunatic, Liar, or Lord[3] but do not call him a good moral teacher because good moral teachers aren’t executed for their teachings. Either he was a lunatic because he really thought he was the Messiah who was going to save the world, a Liar because he knew what was claming to be was untrue, or Lastly he is Lord because he is who he said is and he will be faithful in keeping his promise by doing what he said he would do. But for the life of me, do not call Jesus a good moral teacher because he did not leave that option open for us to accept. Good moral teachers are not executed for being good moral teachers, so Jesus had to have been executed for a much more serious accusation an accusation of much more magnitude than just being a good moral teacher, an accusation that Jesus himself did not deny, a claim of being the one true God that was to sacrifice himself so that the many would have and have it more abundantly[4].
There’s a popular notion that if something isn’t science than it has no claim to truth but that in and of it self is untrue. My audience doesn’t need science to prove that I am indeed standing before them because it is reasonable and logical to believe that I am in fact standing before them. The notion that because science says that the universe is a result of pure chance, randomness, and the origin of species is the result of natural selection and evolution that it must be true because its science. Based on the accepted belief of science we ignore the plain facts from the life of Jesus. Jesus himself fulfilled numerous messianic prophecies from the Old Testament and the probability of Jesus just fulfilling 8 of those messianic prophecies has a probability of 1 out of 1017 (a one followed by 17 zeros)[5]. Now imagine the probability of Jesus fulfilling over 300 prophecies[6] of whom the messiah would be and the massive improbability gets somewhere close to the immense improbability of the Universe Creating itself.
Everything from science to religion tries to answer the questions of how and why we are here. Yet when one looks at even the best explanations of how we got here, all reasons (whether one will admit it or not) become mind staggering. Man has a presupposition that the Universe is infinite but to understand reality is to understand that one can never cross-infinity[7]. Subsequently Jesus crosses the line drawn by religion and science and explains not so much why we are here but explains why he is here, and that my colleagues comes back to the simple truth that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness[8].
Its simple really I believe in Jesus because Jesus believes in me. You see Jesus believed in me so much that he was willing to die, to be crucified not just for my sins but also for the sins of all mankind. I m not suggesting that there is no doubt in my mind about the matter but I am suggesting that the overwhelming evidence sides with Jesus, cause you see without doubt there would be no room for faith and without faith it is impossible to please God[9]. Therefore I believe in Jesus not because I am a fool but because I’d be a fool not to.
1. Pastor Dane Aker, PhD
2. Romans 6:23 (NIV)
3. C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity
4. John 10:10 (NKJV)
5. Josh McDowell, More Than A Carpenter
6. http://www.bibleprobe.com/300great.htm
7. J.P. Moreland
8. Hebrews 9:22
9. Hebrews 11:6
how can you take the message of christ seriously if you believe that god was lying to us all from the beginning? it’s rediculous to pick and choose the parts of the bible you want to believe. i also find it amazing how so many people want to put arbitrary limits on god’s power (“sure he can do all these amazing things, but could he really do it all in just 7 days?”). personally i believe in, not only an impotent god, but also a truthful god.
i believe the earth was created in seven literal days. why? because the bible says “seven days”. and this isn’t some “day” that means something different to god. god invented the sun, he knows what a day is.
for me personally, the infallible word of an omniscient god will always trump the guessing of a scientist, no matter how smart he thinks he is.
sorry, all the above mentions should be God with a capital of course. i was just typing it all quickly and didn’t include any caps
The Bible is True,
Wow, you typed a lot while I was typing my little bit. Strange we both mentioned the turtle myth.
Agree on the importance of the whole bible. Genesis explains sets the stage, it explains the reason for Jesus coming to earth. Plus, mankind does not have to fear an event that would destroy the earth because that would go against God’s purpose for the earth. Genesis tells us what God wants the earth to be like. Mankind made a mess of things but God will fix it. The bible says we are still in God’s rest day – the seventh day. When that day is over, God will say “it is good”. The only way He can say that, is if what was purposed for the earth comes about. Can’t happen if it’s destroyed. Therefore, it ain’t going to happen.
Why do people think the first part of the bible shows a vengeful, unloving God? Look at the instructions given, such as sanitation, that kept his people healthy. If only they were followed – how many people wouldn’t have died from contamination. He shows his involvement in the daily lives of his people – given them guidance and strength. Food and water and clothes that didn’t wear out. He’s a protector. He gave laws to protect and feed widows and orphans. He gave laws against usery -(wish Discover card would review those laws.)
A person could sale himself into slavery but it could not be for longer than 7 years. And a Jubalee year freed all slaves.
He’s also a God of Justice and some people find that hard to take – but we appreciate what justice there is in the world to day. It’s by man, would we say that God’s justice was less righteous? It was tough, but one has to remember that God knows the hearts of man. The bible says that God doesn’t want anyone to be destroyed – so it’s not like he took any pleasure in anyone’s death. But he does what is right. And he proves Himself a defender of his people.
Frank – I remembered the other thing.
Canaan’s descendants were not black. They were lighter-skinned people living to the east of the Mediterranean Sea.
“From which of Noah’s offspring did the blacks descend? “The sons of Cush [another one of Ham’s sons] were Seba and Havilah and Sabtah and Raamah and Sabteca.” (Gen. 10:6, 7) Later Biblical references to Cush are usually equivalent to Ethiopia. Seba is later used when referring to another people in the eastern part of Africa and evidently close to Ethiopia.–Isa. 43:3.”
So, that can’t be used to justify the slavery of blacks.
I’m an athiest so take this as you will.
It seems to me that if someone makeing fun of your (and their) religion in a lighthearted manner gets you all bent out of shape, it realy puts into
question the strength of your faith.
Are you in such doubt of your own faith that you take any witty remark as a heinous mockery?
Or do you just smile and let it pass, secure that your beliefs will stand firm regardless?
Some of the comments seem to be heading toward childish petulance or worse… dogmatic zealotry
Thanks for doing the biblical writeup FrankJ you da bomb, I really find this thread interesting because my brother who turned me onto this site is a preacher and I know he’s one of the people writing about how you have to believe it all and it’s all true. Me I’m something different I think mental development and spiritual growth is the key to the whole matter. Some people can do it around an organized religion and some people are guided by what they see as truths of the universe. If you want to start questioning the bible you picked out the best parts, the murder of Able, who was rewarded for a BLOOD sacrifice and his brother Cain who was punished because he only offered plants that he had raised with his own hands. Thus the first lesson is that God deals in Blood not agriculture. Second the Tower of babel, God takes credit for the languages or christians and jews give him credit for it. When you consider the number of deaths and wars miscommunication has caused thru out time it’s a serious question as to what kind of game God plays with us. Still I agree there are some good lessons to be learned and Ecclisiaties has always been a great comfort to the thinking man. Keep it up FrankJ your becoming a writer and a good thinker. plus your making tons of people laugh and it’s bound to pay back cash !!!! thanks for all the effort you make me smile everyday.
Funny stuff FrankJ..
Some people just can’t find anything funny about Christians poking fun at Christianity.
I just skip over Franks strange new attempt at humor. It doesn’t shake my faith in Christ…It doesn’t make me mad…I just skip over it. Frank when you get back to the funny again I’ll read your full blog.
Actually Genesis (Chapt 1 anyway) says something quite profound for it’s time (and ours) The prevailing creation myths in the ancient world understood the Sun, the Moon, the Constellations, certain Mountains, forrests, rivers, seas, etc to be deities and humans were created to be slaves of those deities. Genesis says that all those things are NOT GODS they are created things and that humans are endowed with the image of that creator.
If it wasn’t obvious before that Frank J. is accually a liberal lampooning conservatives lampooning liberals while slowly breaking down radical right wing beliefs. Amazing
First! ….aw, man! Guess not.
Frank, most Catholics I know have an attitude similar to yours.
To understand the whole Jesus thing check out the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 5 …). We substituted the word LAW for TORAH which is the 1st 5 books, the Moses thing. He said he came not to abolish it but to fulfill it, so it’s probably a good idea for us to know it.
The story really takes off beginning with Abraham. God tells him to bail out on the Babylonian sun god thing and head west.
Then you got Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, then finally Moses himself and his quality time up on the mountain with God. Exodus 19 and 20 describe when God came down in fire on the mountain and SPOKE the 10 Commandments to the people. Scared the heck out of ’em.
Leviticus 23 tells how God wants us to celebrate with him and these sabbaths will be a sign between him and the faithful. The gospel of John tells how Jesus fulfilled the spring feasts, and the Revelation of John tells how he will fulfill the fall feasts.
This is usually lost on Catholics who skip ahead and start reading with Matthew.
Sorry to be a windbag. Keep up the readings of the
Basic
Information
Before
Leaving
Earth.
LOVE the post Frank, keep em up.
This is funny stuff and what R L Hunter said, couldn’t agree more.
Dearest Jen, the part about scientific evidence supporting creation more than evolution…that was funny. I have a suggestion. Go to the nearest university and go to their library. Count how many books are in the science section. Give you a hint, gonna be thousands and a lot of DIFFERENT authors. Now go to Amazon (not going to find them in a legitimate library) and look for “science” books on creationism and “young earth” theories. There are maybe 25-50 books. Pretty much by the same handful of authors who all quote each other’s crack pot theories to make them sound like real science.
Also, micro-evolution has been proven in countless observations. Macro-evolution is the more theoretical line because is depends upon fossils to prove points. In many species lines, they have beautiful examples, the horse is the best example. What many people get caught up in, is that a missing link between humans and primates has never been found. It isn’t gonna happen, as evoultion is not linear (one day you are a monkey and the next you are human) but more like a bush with many branches.
Way back in 1978, getting married, had to go to pre-marital classes, yeah, I am Catholic just like Frank. There were 6 couples in the class. The priest asked the group, how many of you believe in Adam and Eve? Everyone raised there hand except my wife and I. The other people in the group looked at us like we were evil. The priest laughed, to break the tension I think and stated, “you notice my hand wasn’t up either.” At which point I should have gotten up to do the IMAO happy / victory dance, but didn’t. The priest then went on to say that a lot of the Old Testamnet is allogorical and a history of the Jews. Use it for inspiration but don’t follow it word for word as if it is the absolute truth. (paraphrasing here, was 27 years ago). Look to the New Testament for the truth. He also hit on some fun facts in the Old Testament that suprised some of our Adam & Eve believers, women can not cut their hair, women can not talk in church, etc. All in all, he was a pretty cool priest and made the classes that I was dreading into some very interesting classes. They most have worked, cause my wife and I are still married.
Keep up the good work, Frank
Danjo
My lack of typing skills may mean I am an idiot but doesn’t make my message wrong
Genesis is valuable not insomuch as allegory, but by presenting us with figures from history (who may or may not have existed as said).
Like Frank, I’m catholic and we ‘benefit’ from not having to take everything literally.
Do I believe that mankind’s fall was associated with our pride, our desire to become as gods? IE: “God doesn’t know about X, he lives in the clouds, -I- really know better!” Yes, I do believe pride, the sin of Adam was the cause.
Do I believe there are short sighted folks like Nimrod who do stuff just because they can? Yes.
People who take other’s mercy as a reason to embolden their own evil like Lamech? Yup.
C.S. Lewis once said, and I’m somewhat inclined to agree, that the bible is ultimately a historical story of man’s relation with his Creator, and that when someone sets out to prove it wrong historically, they end up failing.
In a nutshell, I enjoy Frank’s stuff, but my minor degree in theology keeps making me throw my hat in. 🙂
P.S. The Old Testament God wasn’t one of hatred, punishment and destruction. Jesus never refuted the old laws, he fullfilled them. Captured their spirit as it were….
…Frank, my apologies for sucking up the bandwidth.
Frank –
The only problem I have with your posts is that it encourages the anti-Catholic bigots to comment and make uneducated and absolutely ridiculous remarks.
The comments that start off with, “Most Catholics I know…” are even worse. Come on people! That comment can easily be turned back on you! It’s a weak, and often false, generalization.
My plea is for all of you budding theologians to stop with the Catholic bashing. If you want to continue with your misguided beliefs, that’s fine, but shut the heck up. Please.
Open for flaming.
JP
FrankJ, prepare to be smote. You have besmirched My name, and I will not stand for it. I put it down in Genesis the way it really happened, and I’ll not tolerate your blasphemy any more.
As for the rest of you, tremble in fear!
– G
Good going, Frank J.! I love the series. I’m secure enough in my beliefs to not be offended by humor (with some legitimate questions thrown in).
It’s amazing how many thin-skinned flakes read IMAO (how did they survive here this long?). I happen to believe that God (the Great Whatever, pick a name) chose evolution as a pretty damned good self-correcting mechanism for His purposes. I have to go now–I’m scheduled to be stoned to death by the mindless sheep.
Good thing I have a carry permit & a large revolver.
In the end, faith has to come from the heart, not geological evidence.
Well, Frank my boy, I disagree with you on several fundamental levels, but this statement hits the nail on the head. God has provided just barely enough evidence to indicate that He exists. It is just enough that He will never be proven or disproven. It is just enough to make FAITH the key to the whole puzzle.
Although I still disagree with you on fundamental levels 😉
Those who are offended by the humor should get over themselves and go elsewhere. Some people seem to be taking you seriously, and that’s just wrong!
Having said that, I think the Bible is boring and no humor is to be found in it.
I love everything else you do here, I’ll just skip it go to the next post.
Actually there is a lot of scientific evidence for creation and the Resseruction, read Gary R. Habermas and Michael R. Licona’s The Case for the Resseruction of Jesus
I checked the IP – all sevens! It really is God!
I think I’ll ban Him…
Well, I’ll be banned.
Some people are being serious about this discussion but I haven’t seen a mass amount of picking on anyone. Except by people saying other’s are being thin skinned flakes. Were some posts deleted? Or are some people not secure enough to have people who believe the bible here?
Just because we give Frank our point of view doesn’t mean we’re about to have heart attacks over his thoughts and humor. We do know what we’ll be finding when we come here.
What about the Babelfish? To wit
“Now it is such a bizarrely improbable coincidence that anything so mindboggingly useful could have evolved purely by chance that some thinkers have chosen to see it as the final and clinching proof of the non-existence of God.
“The argument goes something like this:
I refuse to prove that I exist,' says God,for proof denies faith, and without faith I am nothing.’“
But,' says Man,The Babel fish is a dead giveaway, isn’t it? It could not have evolved by chance. It proves you exist, and so therefore, by your own arguments, you don’t. QED.’“
Oh dear,' says God,I hadn’t thought of that,’ and promptly vanished in a puff of logic.“`Oh, that was easy,’ says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.
“Most leading theologians claim that this argument is a load of dingo’s kidneys…”
JOshG you beat me to it! I thought about that sequence for Hitchhiker’s Guide last night on the way home. Very nice I am not the only one!
I suggest a google search on ‘evidence for the resurrection’ …
(bwahhhh!!! – evil spambot)
Wow. Bad news, Frank. You also have a bright future ahead of you in serious writing. Be careful; if you wander too far from the path of humor, you might find yourself filled with a sadness that can’t be alleviated, no matter how many mammal “smoothies” you drink.
So well said, though. Two commandments and John 3:16 is enough scripture for just about every day. The rest is details.
SLC,
Most people seem to be arguing seriously to me, and that I appreciate.
Well, seeing how this is the 84th comment and it probably won’t get read…
Anyway, one of the key points you’ll discover (if you keep reading until Romans) is that “God is God and we can’t comprehend Him”. He chooses to elevate whom He chooses (Jacob over Esau and Isaac over Ishmael) because He has chosen to do so! This points directly to Jesus and particularly salvation being extended to the Gentiles while the Jews are rejected. Accepting Genesis and God’s eternal purpose is pivotal to understanding salvation later in Romans.
Hey Frank-
Please tell me youre not going to thoroughly comment on things like Numbers and Leviticus. By all means, read them, but those are pretty much all begatting and accounting.
And a lot of the prophets, too. Do read them, but Im not so sure the humor quotient is there…
Frank-
Love the ‘Frank reads the Bible’ posts! PLEASE keep them comming! I’m personally hoping that a publisher notices them so they can be put in hardcopy for the masses. As for your most recent post, I completely agree with you. Jesus and the concept of salvation is the point, not the nit-pick details.
Personally, I find it hillarious when folks start quoting the Bible when in a debate about the details of the Bible. (see several of the comments above) If I don’t believe in the general concept of the creation story being literal, why on earth would I think that you can quote Jesus directly? Who today, other than the the occasional rare-language expert has ever even seen any of the original manuscripts? (or even 2nd or 3rd generation copies) Have you seen how many different Bible versions are in your local Christian book store? Can you honestly believe that EVERY SINGLE WORD in EVERY SINGLE TRANSLATION is the immutable WORD of God? That’s ludicrous…
TRUE FAITH isn’t dependent on whether you believe that Jesus said “the”, “thou”, “thine” or whatever…. Just as arguing about literal or alegorical interpretations has no affect on Faith either. The message is being lost because of the words.
To summarize the summary of the summary, people are the problem. If the infinite wisdom of the almighty is being written down by beings of finite wisdom and comprehension, there is bound to be some errors in translation.
I also believe that god can do whatever he wants and is free from paradox so that the universe can be created at both 6000 years ago and several billion years ago, assuming time exists at all.
while the jews are rejected? all of the early christians were jews.
Frank…I believe God has a great sense of humor or else he wouldn’t have given us humor to lighten our load, but I would be careful about saying you don’t give a rats ass about any book of the Bible…that’s actually disrespectful and not really funny. just sayin.
JoshG…so are you saying God is like John Kerry?
“I created the univers 12 billion years ago, before I created it 6000 years ago. And I served in Vietnam!!!”
God said the jews were rejected, then changed his mind.. Turns out the Jews suffered from premature rejection.
If creationists used the same style of exegesis (interpretation) on the rest of the Bible as they do on Genesis, when Jesus said, “I am the door”, they would speculate on whether he had steel or brass hinges. Don’t let them fool you into thinking there’s nothing to the creation account.
Oops, I meant He, not he.
I read a book by a rabbi that explains Adam and Eve this way.
Animals eat, sleep, breed, and die without ever making moral choices or really “knowing” that they are alive. Humans are sentient. We do all the things animals do, but we ask questions, anticipate the future, and fear our own death.
When Eve took the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, she was, indeed, hoping to be like a god. Having that knowledge was indeed followed by being “cursed”:
1. I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children;
Animals protect their young, but they don’t grieve their deaths. They aren’t sad when they leave home. No cat will ever care if her kitten screams “I hate you!” Our knowledge of love greatly multiplies our sorrows.
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
Only humans do meaningful work beyond what is needed for survival. Animals look for food, shelter, and mates. Only humans know they will die.
Looked at it in this light, the Eve story is an allegory of the development of sentience among primate animals. By reaching for that knowledge, by asking “why”, we (as a species) became more than the animal we descended from. Instead of a sinful act, it became a courageous act. We could live a life with no fear, no pain, and no work, but it would also be a life with no knowledge or awareness. That isn’t what we really want, and it isn’t what God designed us for.
Hey babe, don’t call me dear, alright? SOME scientists (a growing number) support creationism because there are holes in the evolution THEORY. It’s a THEORY, okay? Can’t prove evolution happened; can’t prove creation happened. Can’t prove God exists; can’t prove he doesn’t. That’s why I don’t like religious debates. Anyway, what’s with the attackage of other people’s beliefs? How about some religious tolerance, yo? (haha, how liberal of me!)
BTW, I agree with Aaron. My faith in Christ is not shaken by Frank’s humor. It doesn’t’ make me mad, I just can’t say I’ve ever read a whole post about it. That’s not why I come here.
(stage whisper) The hate-filled-lefty goes to college!
Dear and dearest are the same thing now, babe?
As a fundamentalist, whack-job, maroon, literal-bible-believing doofus I have a couple comments to make.
First, Frank, you’re not offending me at all. I find your interpretations quite funny.
Second, to those who insist on mocking or questioning the intelligence of those of us who happen to believe in these “myths”, if I were to honestly explain how the bible fits in with science, would you honestly listen? Or would you roll your eyes, harumph your smarter-than-thou harump and laugh. It’s obvious from previous posts from my fellow whack-jobs that there’s some pretty well-thought-out arguments here. BUt it’s also obvious that those who mock haven’t bothered to seriously consider those arguments. And that’s too bad.
To those who are smarter than me, I can’t convince you. Only God, Himself, can do that. But I fear not even He could do that.
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees answered, saying, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from You.”
But He answered and said to them, “An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign, and no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Dear, dearest–I don’t care, it’s condescending and I don’t like it.
Dear Jen,
So how do you start your letters?
Sincerely,
Honeybuns
I start my letters “hey bitch!”
Jen, honey, you really should watch your tone, dear. It’s not very lady like.
Uh, Frank, I need you need to deliver some more funny, as I fear some people here have gone off the deep end.
Jen,
I’ll try, but I went off the deep end myself a long time ago.
Not you! You’re my favorite! (not exactly sure how that was relevant, but I think I’m probably somewhere the deep end myself. That’s what happens when you don’t get your morning coffee)
Marc,
One thing that might not be clear in this thread is that Catholics have the freedom to view creation in any way, as long as they recognize that God caused creation to come into being and to become what it is, including human beings. Many Catholics believe unconditionally in the literal truth of the Genesis story. Many believe unconditionally in evolution, with God either guiding the evolution or making a decision at what point man had developed into what he wanted us to be. Which version you believe is not important, just that you believe that God is the first cause of everything, and that he created everything to be good. Lots of other stuff too, but no one should be condemning anyone else for believing one way or the other. Frank J is teasing about things that his faith also is free to believe, and maybe sweet Sarahk believes too. If your faith can’t handle some good-natured teasing, you really need to relax a little.
Hey you Jen;
Is that better. I start all post directed at a another poster with “Dearest”, male or female, so don’t think it meant anything else. If you are really seriously offended, that is probably the funniest thing I can imagine. Yes, there are holes in most scientific theories, thats why you keep working on them to fill them in to get the complete picture. Holes do not mean a theory is wrong!
Danjo
No….if I were truly offended by that I’d be pretty lame.
I felt like it was condescending, and I don’t need to be talked down to.
Yeah it has holes, so don’t pretend that’s it’s the God-honest truth because you can’t prove that, just like I can’t prove creation.
Again, this is why I don’t like to debate religion. There’s no definitive proof.
kes wrote:
“Have you seen how many different Bible versions are in your local Christian book store? Can you honestly believe that EVERY SINGLE WORD in EVERY SINGLE TRANSLATION is the immutable WORD of God? That’s ludicrous…”
You are correct that we have no way of knowing the exact gramatical or syntactic composition of Jesus’ words. But it is absolutely clear from the original (and near original) texts that Jesus said something along the lines of ‘I did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.’ (Matthew 5.) The particular english words that best fit the meaning are debatable. The meaning itself is not. The mere existence of many translations doesn’t by itself mean that the Bible is not literal, because the vast majority of those translations (aside from those that are intentionally distorted) say pretty much the same thing. Translation issues can raise some interesting questions about certain theological points, but they provide little room for questioning fundamentals. And the connection between the old and new Testaments is indeed fundamental.
The authenticity of the New Testament is easily established as a matter of historical fact (I don’t mean the authenticity of the events of the NT, but the authenticity of the documents). With rare exceptions, what is written in your Bible is more or less what was written by Paul and Luke and Peter. That doesn’t mean it’s true, but it does mean that if you believe the NT is true, you have little alternative to believing that Jesus said he came to fulfill the OT law, and that He and the apostles really did reference the accounts of Enoch, Abraham, David, Isaiah et al as facts. So quibble all you like about thees, thous and thine, but if the New Testament is fundamentally true, so is most of the Old Testament. The two are thoroughly interdependent.
That said, I still enjoy Frank’s little commentary on Genesis, fundamentalist old fogie that I am. I am convinced that a God who would create the duck billed platypus has a sense of humor, and isn’t offended by a little good-natured ribbing. I’d be careful with the “rat’s ass” comments though. Might bring on a smiting.
Nathan-
Thank you for supporting my point, from a different perspective. I agree that people who belive that they can quote, word for word, any specific phase or sentence out of the Bible don’t fully understand the nuances of translation. But, I’d like to make clear(er), that I fully belive in the INTENT of the Bible (and it’s purpose for existing). Large sections are historically accurate and scientifically verifiable. Other sections are clearly alegorical (love the ‘door’ reference above!). I just find it frustrating that some people have a hard time believing that it can be both, without disparaging it in any point.
It is faith that leads us to understanding the will and intent of God. Not, the specific words that are written on the paper.