So Russia is evil and violent. Who knew?
This, of course, is very bad for Georgia, but it’s also very bad for Obama. The more often people remember there are problems in the world that can’t be fixed through smiles and trite sayings, the more people who will be apprehensive about voting for Obama. This is the sort of crisis that gives a solid argument for McCain, too. I talked to a McCain supporter and an Obama supporter asking them to tell me why their candidate would be best to handle this, and here’s what they said:
MCCAIN SUPPORTER: “Though not everyone likes McCain, they have to admit he’s a tough bastard who has shown before he knows how to react to foreign crises when lives are on the line. Russia should be intimidated about overstepping themselves too much if McCain is in charge.”
OBAMA SUPPORTER: “Obama should be able to handle this crisis because he has such a sweet smile and a cute button nose. And look how his ears stick out; isn’t he adorable! I just want to hug him and squeeze him and never let go!”
So, do you all think we’ll finally get that war with Russia we were all expecting during the eighties? Probably still not a good idea, huh?
We got Batman. They wouldn’t stand a chance.
I’m personally amazed by the Russians. Their peacekeepers were able to off the cuff increase their “Peace Keeping” force of around 2000 troops (As defined by the UN) to over 20,000 troops in minutes. These guys were then able to take 2 divisions worth of tanks, BMP Armored Personnel Carriers, BTR 80, and more ground pounders than you can shake a stick at, over a Extremely mountainous country, while coordinating their attacks in two entry points with air support. It’s amazing these “Peace Keepers” were able to Blitzkrieg these guys on their own turf like this… It’s like these guys have been planning this for a while… But the Russians would have never done that.
All I can say is the Russians Screwed the pooch on this one. Putin wanted to make an example of Russian Military might to show the world the old bear still has its teeth. All he did was expose the ineffectiveness of his military. His tanks from most of the pictures I see were old updated T72’s. It doesn’t matter how much reactive armor you put on that tank it’s still a piece of crap. Any Tank designed by a NATO country would make short work of those. Their Air force wasn’t able to effectively hit targets even though they had air superiority. I always suspected the MIG 29-31 were worthless, now we know.
To put this military action in terms most people can understand, visualize that fat obnoxious guy everyone knows trying to show how tough he is by shoving around a 10 year old.
That reminds me how much I enjoyed Red Storm Rising.
Just don’t march on Moscow……
@ #2
I don’t consider myself a military expert, but from what I’ve read, I get the feeling the problem may have less to do with the MiG 29s and more to do with the quality of the training the Russian pilots receive.
It would be good to smash Russia once and for all. Should have let Patton handle it when he wanted to.
Yeah, Patton and McArthur should have been allowed to clean their plates.
Wait until Obama comes back from vacation…THEN the Russians will be running scared. Until then, it’s beach time for Barry, though.
I think you have lost all hope of changing. I am hoping you change but alas changing while hoped upon can be very audacious because having an audience with the audacity to hope for change is enough to give one stagefright and block all bodily function. Let me go on to add that I am audaciously audacious in my hope for hoping against all hopelessness in a world that lacks the audacity to hope for change. Did you get all that or should I repeat?
You’ve been bamboozled by hoodwinkers, Freemon. There’s no hope for you unless you change.
#6,#7, The problem was a liberal President (FDR), who couldn’t figure out that “The enemy of my enemy, is still my enemy. No wonder the Democrats consider him one of our greatest presidents. I have always wondered if he wasn’t behind the Rosenbergs.
Also, #11, don’t forget our greatest war hero President (after Washington himself), Dwight Eisenhower, fired McArthur for insubordination during the Korean War. McArthur wanted to nuke China and take Mao out. So, Republicans can make the same mistake.
I think it’s time to take a root-cause analysis approach to this situation: Which American politician was last in Europe giving speeches and meeting with foreign leaders? Obama, that’s who. How can this not be his fault?
#12/Jimmy
Didn’t harry truman fire MacArthur???
Oh, yeah, Cap’n, you’re rrrright!! (I sit corrected, sir. I still think Ike was weak, however. It’s hot, I need a beer.)
I welcome our Russian overlords. I, however, will still be God King since I hate America even more than they do!
Jimmy, stay seated. How was Ike weak?
I got a message that my other comment is “pending” while it is being reviewed by the moderator. So just in case, I am posting this comment with my e-mail address. I must have been away from this site for too long and missed when the moderation began.
#17 – mykidsmommy
Thank you for that rousing round of Putin propaganda! I swoon at my previous errors in judgment! I fall before the glory that is Tsar Nicholas! er, . . . Chairman Stalin! er, . . Prime Minister Putin!
Oh BTW, Human Rights Watch has discovered that the Russians were exaggerating the Ossetian death toll.
” I’m very, very happy that the Senator [Obama’s] request for a ceasefire has been complied with by President Medvedev.”
—Virginia Governor Tim Kaine
BarryO fixed the problem, even while on vacation!
Hooah!
Nice links Mykidsmommy.
Will you put me in a concentration camp, like you put the Japanese during WWII?
Who are “You”. Are you an American? If you were wouldn’t that be “we”? How about Would you put me in the gulag like Stalin did my grandfather, uncle, cousin, aunt, half-step-brother-once-removed.
Putin wanted a small country he could beat up on. If Russia actually gave a rats ass about the people of South Ossetia they would have asked for international peacekeepers. Lord knows the U.N loves sending out their worthless observers.
Instead he put his own troops there. A peace keeping force is not 20,000 plus troops for an area the size of South Ossetia. That’s an invasion force. And if they were peace keepers, why didn’t they stop at the border? Everyone sees this for what it is. He went after Georgia only because if he went after Ukraine, Lithuania, or even Poland, Russia would have gotten it’s ass handed to it by NATO.
Putin is a punk. I heard he got his start in Politics by sealing old ladies purses.
#5 – Posted by: MarkoMancuso
I had read a story on CNN that had said the same thing. It’s a possibility, but with the force they went in with it appears to me they were planning for this. So the Russians have 2 choices.
1) “We suck because we can’t build a war plane, or make workable precision weapons that would be on par with what the U.S had in the 80’s”
2) “We are complete morons because somehow in the planning to beat up on a smaller country we forgot to plan time to train our pilots
What is it Russian Trolls?
1938
Germany stirs up trouble in a border province of a neighboring country.
Local government tries to subdue the trouble-makers.
Germany claims they’re only acting to defend their citizens in the troubled province.
Germany rolls over the entire neighboring country.
Sympathetic news media swallows Germany’s propaganda whole, blames the victim.
West seeks diplomatic solution.
Sells victim nation to aggressor in exchange for ‘peace in our time’.
2008
History repeats itself. Russia learns. Can we?
If Obama wins the election, I hope Bush declares war on Russia and drops a few nukes on Moscow. We would have to take care of all our problems for the next for years before Bush leaves office and there would be no quicker way than with nukes.
Man, these Russian trolls are everywhere! At least we can break out some new insults now.
Hey, mykidsmommy, go ferment some potatoes!
Mykidsmommy – another example of what happens when the Motherland drinks vodka and smokes crack while pregnant.
OK, so I’m a little rusty with my Russian/Soviet insults….
I’m betting it’s number 2. Either way, Tsar Putin can’t be very pleased.
That last post was a reply to #23.
I guess Georgia should have never tried to force South Ossetia to become part of Georgia again after it broke away from Georgia. Russia didn’t like Georgians killing Ossetians. South Ossetia is of mixed ethnicity, Georgians and Ossetians. GREAT POST!!!
OIFvet, Master Shake – I bet it feels nice when Suck-a-Shvili licks your a**. Continue enjoying it, because it will not last long. Only stupid fat donkeys like you think that a paranoid schizophrenic is capable of being a real friend of the U.S.
When I was born in Russia, they did not know that crack existed, but I bet your parents did. Putin was stuck between the old and the new generation, but Medvedev is only 42, my peer. Our political consciousness formed during perestroika, so wait and see, you idiots. You compare Russia to the USSR only because you have no brains are are uncapable of thinking.
Kenashimame – I was not defending Stalin, you creep! Stalin was a Georgian, and with his other Georgian friend Beria they raped and murdered Russians for too many years.
I was not defending Putin either. What I meant is that I am a US citizen of Russian descent, and many of us disagree with the one-sided media coverage and political speeches. What are these thirsty for war politicians going to do to us, ethnic Russians in the US, if you start an all-out war with Russia?
Gee, mykidsmommy, I would think you would be jealous of Medvedev since he’s competition for your fellation of Czar Putin.
You must be so proud of the mighty Russian bear!
Master Shake, and you must be veeeery proud of the current state of this country, which for the first time has two outstanding idiots as the leading presidential candidates. Today their main competition is to win over Suck-a-shvili, because they both want him to suck their shvili.
mykidsmommy
Wise up lady. No where in my posts do I ever praise President Saakashvili. The point here is Putin wanted to use Georgia to show off the Russian Military. If he gave a second thought to the “Horrors” the Georgians were doing to the poor Ossetiaians then here were several other avenues to go. Repelling an attack is one thing. Full on invasion is another.
Other point. When Perestroika was initiated the 80’s Putin was apat of the KGB. Him being set in his old ways is no excuse for his actions.
If Putin wants to have a favorable immage in America then he needs to stop cracking down on politcal opponents, Stop creating charges and taking property from other Russians, stop this crap of everything the U.S does with a country near Russia is against Russia. Then we would be fine. Thats not what he wants. He wants a strong Russia. And instead of making an economic powerhouse with the loads of resources the country has, he wants to do in in the political and military relm. Wow! That Sounds just like the Soviet times!
My beef is with Putin and his subordinates. Not with Russia, or Russians. Big Diffrence. But you don’t want us to compare Putin to USSR times. LOOK AT WHAT THE GUY IS DOING TO YOUR COUNTRY! The only other recent times I could compare this to is the Rule of Czar Alexander III with his Police state under the Ocrana.
Russia has a beef with the US, not Putin personally. Putin is just a reflection on what is on people’s minds in the Russian-US relations; he follows the crowd. Read Stratfor analysis on my blog, if you are interested at all.
Russian people feel that the US have never fully trusted Russia as a partner and have conducted Machiavellian policy of “divide and conquer”. The Russians wanted and hoped for good relations with the US. They were promised no NATO on their borders, and these promises were broken.
Today the Russians feel that it is the US who gave a psycho the capacity and the chutzpah to start military action in South Ossetia.
If the Average everyday Russian feels we think lowly of them why are they still coming to America by the boat load. (I’m not denying what you say. I’m just pointing out a flaw in the thinking.) If we think lowly of Russia then why did we include them in the G7 now G8 conference when Russia doesn’t even come close to having an economy to warrant an inclusion? If the U.S doesn’t fully trust Russia then why does our military do multiple joint exercises with them, and work together in military operations like in Bosnia? (By the Russian military have the best vodka and their “Welfare Liaison” kick ass, But their equipment sucks… Except their AKS are pretty cool.)
You point out the Stratfor Analysis. George Friedman points out that the Ossetians were shelling Georgian Villages for three days before the Georgians went in. Obviously if Russia was doing their stated Job as Peace keepers the Georgians wouldn’t need to go in. It also leads the reader to believe what we have been talking about. The Russians wanted an oppertunity to show off their Military.
I don’t see how it’s up to the US or Russia what groups independent nations want to join. Russia doesn’t like former Soviet Bloc countries joining NATO, they should offer an alternative. So far the only alternative I’ve read is Physical threats to these nations borders.
Some Ossetians were shelling Georgians, and some Georgians were shelling Ossetians. Yes, the peacekeepers on both sides should have done a better job. But it is hypocritical to insist that Putin was evil to subdue Chechnya, which had islamic terrorists training its militants, and not say the same about Saakashvili, who bombed Christians.
What other peace keepers are you refering to? From the info you presented the only people that were Peace keepers were the Russians.
Nobody is drawing a parallel with Chechnya anywhere. (That was started by Boris Yeltsen. Putin just finnished it) As far as I can tell neither the Georgians or the Ossetians are Blowing up schools or taking entire theaters hostage. In most instances if Someone shoots bombs at you, you’d normally fire back. The report you offered only stated the Ossetians were bombing. It never makes a mention of the Georgians shooting into South Osseta before they went in.
Click here for Wikipedia’s Timeline of Events
I have an issue with Wikipedia’s statement that “Georgia has offered limited autonomy to South Ossetia and Abkhazia, but both have declined.” Both territories were fully autonomous republics while part of the Soviet Georgia, but this full autonomy was taken away after the USSR dissolved.
Btw, I still believe that only chickens do not sign their posts. Our nicknames show what we stand for.
In the USSR Osseta was never recognised as a independent “Socialist” State on par with Ukraine, Russia, or Belarus from anywhere I’ve seen.
Wilkipedia is a “living encylopedia” Meaning that certified Bloggers change it to keep it current. If you dont like the things stated, you can go to the bottom of the page and see the works cited to post it. If you find something conflicting, you can send the a link to the Pravda story you believe is more crediable.
Post #38 was the same guy responding to you for the last previous post. I don’t see how posting a fake name is braver than not posting a name at all. But if you believe our names should be what we stand for, Okay, I can Relate to that.
FDFA – History lesson: in the USSR, there were 15 main Soviet Socialist Republics, some of which were in turn divided into Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republics. North Ossetia, South Ossetia, and Abkhazia were part of Georgia, but they were autonomous republics.
I know how to edit Wiki but have no time – too much of it is spent arguing with ya.
I also do not believe that you can force democratic way of life on people.
Minor correction to #41 – South Ossetia was an Autonomous Region, while North Ossetia was an Autonomous Republic. Even I get confused, so no surprise that you do as well.
Thanks for the lesson, but I don’t think you are corect in you assesment. I’m not arguing your wording, I’m arguing your deffinition.
In the 1940’s, Stalin demanded that all of the Soviet Unions Republics be represented in the UN. The Compromise was that Ukraine, Russia, and Belarus be represenited. Osseta was never labled on any map I’ve seen as being on par with those regions. Under comunisims deffinition everything was independant.
I disagree with your assesment on independence. In my mind that would be like saying a county is diffrent from a state.
I believe you shoulden’t force a Democracy on people, but you should never force a dictatorship on anyone either. At least in a democracy the people choose wether to follow it or not.
#43 – I can’t believe you are trying to convince me that there should be no dictatorships. Duh!
I was not assessing independence of parts of the Soviet Union, just telling you what they were OFFICIALLY called by the Soviet government on the Soviet maps.
Pooh, I am deflated.
Hey, Pooh is My foreign policy expert. Get your own, racist cracker!
Well. All this doesn’t take away from Putin being a scumbag, but thanks for the lesson though.
Here is a link to a public page of the Defense Department:
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=46502
To the Russians, I’d just like to say:
Muahahahahahahahahahaha!
Sorry if I misspelled that.
Oh, crap, my beer is empty – gotta go!
Fools russian where angels fear to tread!