Hey, I’m still here! I’ll return to my regular daily updating next week. To tide you over some more, check out this week’s Carnival of the Vanities for more blogging goodness.
Also, Dopegirl sent a reponse to my e-mail. In the interest of balance, I thought I’d share.
Dear Ignorant Sir,
Thank you for misconstruing my point.
I wasn’t implying that anarchism and socialism are one in
the same. I was trying to say that both ideologies would
employ armed revolution for their causes. Anarchism,
popularly misconceived as disorder and chaos, is a
political system based on community organization and the
dismantling of national government. No, it doesn’t lead
to rampant troublemakers having ‘no rules’ to hold them
down. Socialism also involves the reditribution of power
to the people, but the state structure, which is reworked,
is left in place.
You seem to underestimate the power of the exploited
peoples in capitalist society. Look at the Zapatistas,
the EZLN, of Mexico. They are a peasant-based indigenous
group that’s been robbed of their land and culture for the
sake of capitalist development. They are sparsely armed,
but have successfully countered the Mexican army. They
have set goals and will either achieve them or die.
Desperation fuels rebellion. The comfortable business
elite have little to no experience with exploitation or
desperation (unless it involves the accumulation of the
material possessions neccessary to portray their affluent
image).
Who do you think would win in a fight? Who ever has less
to lose. In my opinion, the exploited have the ability to
go fuckin’ nuts.
A lot of anti-war skeptics don’t believe that protests
will make any difference. Maybe not directly, but, if the
popular national opinion (as in Britain) is against war
and the government decides invade Iraq anyway, the true
nature of democratic society will be exposed. As more
people see the government’s lack of accountability to it’s
citizens, the more they will question the order of
society. And the anti-capitalist movement will grow. Are
people like you so ignorant and self-possessed to think
that capitalism is the best form of social organization?
European feudal society was eventually overturned because
it was unfair and unequal. It’s only a matter of time
until capitalism realizes the same fate.
Dope*girl
(*slang for “great”, as in “that’s a ‘dope’ song”)
I have to agree, once we slaughter the oppressed people with our advanced weaponry and military tactics developed by our capitalistic society, we’ll probably say, “Wow, those guys went fuckin’ nuts.”
Have a great weekend, everyone.
Dopegirl needs to remember that “dope” is slang for something else, too, besides drugs and “great.”
Damnit, where’s that Rumsfeld Commie Gun?
I love how people blather on and on about the failure of “democratic institutions”. Democratic institutions are by nature unstable and are able to swing with public opinion like a weathervane. If the people of Britain think that the Iraq issue is enough to want to sweep Blair out of office, they won’t vote Labor. Governments are accountable to the people (which is why elected officials try to get public support for their positions), but not directly.
And to paraphrase Churchill, no, capitalism isn’t the best form of social organization — except for any other one that’s been tried before.
Shitforbrainsgirl should also remember that in America, the middle class owns about 200 million guns, and aren’t likely to go quietly when the “oppressed workers” (whoever they are – I guess that’s the people who sell drugs on the streets and are on welfare or are otherwise unemployed) decide to destroy the system. I have a feeling they won’t get very far in that destruction.
Actually, Josh, they might still vote Labour: it’s Labour that wouldn’t vote for Blair. If this drags on without a war for much longer, he’ll face a leadership challenge and very possibly lose. Instead, the UK would have an Old Labour government that would be out on its ass in two or three years at the latest but do a massive amount of damage before then. This would be Labour snatching defeat from the jaws of victory in a weird parallel of what happened to the Tories after the “Night of the Long Knives” when they kicked out Thatcher.
Complete tangent: Rumsfield was just asked by a reporter about how there are terrorists on every continent, since Antarctica is a continent. His response: “Can you assure me that there are not?” Classic. Please use this somehow, Frank!
Dear “Great” Girl!
If it not too much trouble, read “The Road to Serfdom”. You may also try “Black Book of Communism” .
Sincerely,
An ungrateful escapee from Socialism
It never ceases to amaze me how many people are willing to dismiss what works, eg. capitalism, and insist on the forced imposition of what has been demonstrated not to work, eg. anarchy or socialism. No example is too obscure to pull out of their ass and allow to rattle around in their empty heads proving that yes… dope-girl, eg pot-girl, dumb-girl, phat-girl is an asshat.
Ahhh!!! Dopeygirl reminded me of another atribute of pro socialist mentality. A low IQ bonded to a pretentious attitude and memorized political vocabulary. I wonder how long it would take the middle class Mexicans to zap the Zapatistas if they thought it essential and were as evil as she thought. Ask the people of the previous Soviet Union how much fun it was when getting toilet paper for a Christmas present was considered extravegant.
J.Adams
At first I could feel my blood pressure rising when I read Dopeygirl’s remarks, but now I’ve calmed down and mellowed out a bit. Now I’m inclined to extend a standing invitation for her to visit this site again – we can all use some comic relief.:)
Dopegirl wrote “Who do you think would win in a fight? Who ever has less to lose.”
In the interest of both logic and guns, who would win a fight: someone with nothing, or someone with nothing but a loaded gun?
Sounds like dopegirl has a little crush on you, Frank… I could be wrong.
In “A Conflict of Visions” Thomas Sowell describes the Liberal mind as having an “unconstrained” view of human possibility. Basically this means that Liberals view human intention as being more or less decisive.
Thus, in any conflict, who ever wants it the most wins.
I think the trap here is that there is a grain of truth to this. If you walk into a fight believing you are going to lose, you will. If you don’t really want to win, you can always find opportunities to sabotage yourself.
But desire is not infinitely fungible. Assuming a reasonable level of desire and self-confidence on both sides, then God comes into play. And as Voltaire said: God is on the side of the bigger batallions (these days, read ‘heavier firepower).
Dopegirl’s mistake (an error she shares with most Progressives) is an overestimation of the efficacy of passion. One can be filled with a terrible (though dispassionate) resolve to do something one doesn’t really like doing. All one needs is to believe that the alternative is worse.
With rare exceptions, goverments that have lost wars with ‘revolutionaries’ didn’t really want to win. They self sabotaged (e.g. the British in the American Revolution and the U.S. in Vietnam). Had they been willing to use all their resources to grind down their enemies, they would have won the day.
Victory is not an inevitable product of desparation. Many desparate causes have been lost. Victory proceeds from:
1) Being strong where your enemies are week (and desparately poor people are weak everywhere) and
2) Being resolved to see it through.
Thus are successful revolutions rare when not fought against decadent, irresolute institutions. Passion is no substitute for seriousness and vigor.
Marxists and anarchists refuse to understand that the Soviet Union collapsed because Socialism can’t compete with Capitalism. Socialist economies are stagnant and unproductive. Socialists would deny pharaceutical manufactureres the very profit motive that drives the creation of the meds in the first place.
The anarchists and Marxists that are leading the anti-war marches aren’t doing to support Saddam per se, but to thwart the spread of the larger enemy; Democracy and Capitalism.
True “anarchy” (a complete lack of a government’s economic manipulation) is true Capitalism. But free market competition results in DopeGirl’s hated “unequality”; some merchants will end up doing better business than others. “The Anarchist GOVERNMENT” will then have to institutionalise economic controls and central planning in order to kill any measure of “unfairness.” That, of course, is tyranny; no one is allowed to reap the rewards consumate with their labor.
It’s a wonderful social system for ants and honeybees. But socialist human societies have done nothing but fall into a spiral of catatonic mediocrity; from the individual laboror up to the planning committee. The lack of any example that socialism leads to happiness and prosperity has relegated marxists and anarchists to debate; words are all they have to compete with–the ideals exist in academia not in practice. I guess that’s why, when a point is moot, we call it “academic”.
I’ve concluded that Marxists just don’t understand people. The first word a baby learns ain’t “mama”, it’s “MINE!”, and that baby understands exactly what that word means. Anarchists have either forgotten it, or that human being can by sheer force of making a decision, change their nature.
Sorry, didn’t mean to blather on this long!!
Spork, if you want some great reading, check out some anarcho-capitalist webpages (no links handy). They may be totally insane, but they’re a lot of fun to read.
Hmm, dopegirl is promoting a “governmental” system based on small self interested groups tightly organized with no National or Federal system….. well God knows how successful that has been in Afghanistan, Somalia ex. The Problematic aspect (just one to mention lol) of her concept is that she has not read Locke or Hobs… Their “Social contract” theory is based on the notion that political society begins in a state of anarchy. And people organize into larger and larger political subdivision in order to protect Life and property(see Maslow’s needs) because the dangers are so that the small organizations Can no longer defend there life or property(see MAD MAX lol) One other thing, the Ideal (Marx Engels) version of communism was for the “Government” to fall away after the rise of the proletariat.
Just my rant.
Frank P, yes…and Marx’s other “Problem” was that he wrote in Europe at a time when monarch’s and caste systems were running the show. Perhaps Marx, an economist of sorts himself, never bothered to notice the New World. Nor did he seem to understand Adam Smith’s “Wealth Of Nations” that was, in a supreme act of historical poetic justice, published in 1776. But that may be due to his environment.
It’s also interesting that Marx wrote his manifesto for an industrial society, but that it was willing to be adapted, though disasterously so, by countries with largely agrarian economies. Industry (whose results of their production are somewhat conceptual to the laboror) requires a lot more motivation than farming (whose results of production are more obvious.) And the motivation is profit.
Maybe it’s just that Marxists idealize humans in the same way PETA-types idealize animals. Animals’ lives, in the wild, are perilous, stressful and short–not an idyllic Dr. Doolittle (sp?) world of gardenic (wrd?) utopia. Marxists are deluded about human nature. Aw, let’s face it; they’re a bunch of ass-hatted sociopaths: free market failures.
Did DopeGirl actually use the following phrase?!
“…Mexican army…”
It would take, what… maybe 10 Texas Rangers to take down the Mexican “Army”. Or just one little old lady with a little bribe money.
Thanks for the well thought out repsonses to dopegirl, but I think you are all taking her too seriously to even argue with her. I think the best response to her is just a smack upside the head.
Stinson, your sarcasm is misplaced. The Mexican Army is much, MUCH stronger than you think.
You’d need more like a company of U.S. Marines, as long as they were armed only with bolt-action rifles (no bayonets).
Frank, a literal “smack upside the head” would be assaulting; and turn her away in disgust. Our proverbial smack upside the head a more proper (and more civil) way to complete the arguement.
You guys are so mean. Dopegirl is right. We should just give back all our stuff and our land to the people that were there before. The Mayans.
Oh, damn, they’re all dead. Sorry, we’re keeping it!
Wow, those guys went f***in’ nuts! That is too funny. Go nuts Iraq, we want to see you f***ers go nuts.
…First time I write here, nice place.
Listen people, two (and a half) things:
First anyone notice the diffrence of writing style between the two messages?
The first was a heap of bubble-headed non-sense, which sounds just right considering the nickname, The second used no words with less the 16 letters and at least three synonym (you know shift+F7 in Microsoft Word 🙂 links. hmmm, I wonder which one she actully wrote)
Two- This girl has never been in a country that isn’t democratic/capitalistic, would she have been (or any of these cracker-jack nuts advertising anti-democratic system) chances are she’d still be rotting in jail for narcotic offences (or dead if muslim surah is applied fully) or missing a limb or two of her anatomie.
Hey, she might be all of the above for merely being a woman and speaking her mind.
Not to mention that anarchy is heavly based on survival of the strongest (lets go back to cavemen times- lots of rights for women back then)
And when I think how many women were in the communistic ruling party…just heart warming.
Two&half- why dosn’t she directly respond to any of this… (scared to have her e-mail published?!)
“If the price of my childrens freedom is my blood, it is a price I am willing to pay!”
Actually, Tuning Spork, that would be battery, not assault. Battery is intentionally inflicting an unwanted contact with another person. Assault is either 1) attempted battery or 2) intentionally creating a reasonable apprehension by another person of imminent unwanted contact.
Uri,
Actually her e-mail is on the original post she responded to. That’s how I was able to e-mail her back.
Jaroslav,
I yearn for the good ole days when a smack upside the head was just a smack upside the head.
I know…damn lawyers. 😉 Wait, I think I represent, um no, resemble that remark.
who would win? whoever had less to lose
right.. cause the dope fiend at the end of the block is more motivated to win the revolution than i am… losing my life, my houses, cars, boats etcera is of course no motivation at all to kill every single stinking revolutionary bstard who came within range..
no not at all
and i have no idea where i could get something to defend myself
and no intention of doing so
because i am a sheep who will be peaceably led to slaughter
despite my sheming cannibalistic capitalist nature
HAHAHAHAHAHAH
try it, biatch!
ps… if its so great, why do you need to impose it through force of arms? you don
‘t get executed for proposing communism in the us (though….) so why hasn’t it happened, at least in berkeley?
oh it sucks, and most people came here to escape places that sucked like that??
right…
dope girl, go moke some more!
“Who do you think would win in a fight? Who ever has less to lose.”
This makes no sense. It’s whoever has the most to lose. And the answer to that is always the U.S. We value our freedoms guaranteed by our Constitution, the same Constitution that we invented. We don’t seek out wars, but when we are poked and prodded, we will come over to your corner of the world and kick your ass. But before we leave, we will rebuild your stinking, screwed up government, your bridges and hospitals, and then toss you the keys and leave.
And, news flash dope girl, dividing up the world along the lines of “exploitees” and “exploiters” is so 1830s. Marx was wrong, can we move on now?
The ultimate expose of how primitive economic systems like socialism don’t work is the old “joke” from the Soviet Union:
“They pretend to pay us, and we pretend to work.”
MonkeyPants
Imperial Falconer
Dudes & Dudettes,
I got news for you. This bint works at the same university as I do. I think she teaches in one of those Ethnic Studies departments. They all sound just like “Dopegirl.”
I ought to get hazardous duty pay for having to put up with these damn wetbrain fossilized Marxists and red diaper doper babies.
Dear god, get me back to my native planet (Montana).
Pearl, I don’t know whether to envy you or pity you. I pity you for having to deal with them sentimental mush-heads…yet envy you for the opportunity you have to de-mush them. Do something you might think yer too polite to do; challenge them. Get ’em thinking deeper than they do, all civility intact, and maybe they’ll realise the error of their gutturally shallow ways. Then again, don’t endanger yer long-term strike at tenure.
I am always amused when “progressives” talk about doing away with the “authoritarian” Capitalist system and replacing it with socialism or anarchy.
If they do away with the “authoritarian” system, then no one has to pay any attention to them or their pretty plans. After all, they have a “non-authoritarian” system that does not depend on force or violence, therefore they have no way of enforcing their decisions on the rest of us.
They can play nicely in their little communes with meetings, debates and votes until the rest of us (or someone else) decides that they have something we want. They then become expendable.
I’m amazed at the comments I’ve been reading here. Do you (collectively) seriously think the Democrats are bad and Republicans good? You’ve gotta be kidding. For the larger part they’re both predators– a style of governing that won’t work in the future on a planet that’s getting so small. Force nor deception won’t work much longer.
There’s two types of force or power.. “power over” and “power with”… “power with” will always wins out over the “power over”. Even though the “power over” appears to be more successful for moments of time and omnipotent…it’s only temporary.
It’s how we’ve evolved to this point in time.. the U.S. became as powerful a nation as it has because the people of this country were responding in a cooperative manner..”power with”. Admittedly they were being bullshited by the ruling elites most of the time but our combined efforts made us a tremendous force. It was “power with” that we were expressing. That’s no longer the case. The delusion of this nation as being fair and about democracy is being held to the light more and more and the power with is going away as the average American sees they’re no longer respected by our government (and those who control the government). They are now seeing the emperors new clothes. George Bush and company being the sore that’s going to make every one aware of the abscess.
Our government no longer can get us rallied by clamoring for democracy since all but the most naive believes that anymore, so now they try to have us unite in fear against “terrorists”. People all over the planet are wising up to this too–. regretfully a little bit slower in this country but we’re coming around. You can thanks a totally controlled media for that feat. Eventually enough of those people will become a new “power with” force. These people will create new parties and create new ways of creating communities that will honor human beings and life in general. Science and our technologies will be used first to better mankind and then to make a profit–like Einstein implored in an address to a 1937 class of engineers. We will act in the best interest of the whole in an intelligent manner instead of the predatory manner we now model ourselves after. The old regimes will be clamoring and trying like hell to subvert this change but it will be too late. I just hope that it doesn’t come to violence against those who are trying to make a better world but I assume it will…hell..it already has.
Most people want a fair society. It’s a shame so many of you have sold out on even supporting the idea. I think maybe the brainwash has been so total on the majority on this list that you think there can’t be a better way and hence forth won’t demand more from those that support and benefit tremendously from status quo.
We create the reality we believe in..thank god the kind of mind set I hear here is in a small but regretfully rabid and vocal minority who side up with the ruling elites and attack anyone who dreams of something better.
Peace
Roy
Man, I need some of that stuff Roy is smoking.
Maybe if we follow dopegirls advice, we can make the United States just as successful as the USSR, or East Germany, or maybe even North Korea! One could only hope to have that wonderful of a standard of living.
Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated.
Pass the bong.
My Dear Spork,
I will never, ever, ever get tenure at this particular state-run snakepit (or any other, for that matter). I never bothered to Pile it Higher and Deeper, doncha know.
BTW, I had an interesting “encounter” with one of my so-called colleagues a few weeks ago. He ended up telling me to “put it where the sun don’t shine” and I ended up telling him and his little pals (who were all ganging up on me because I wouldn’t agree that America is Evil and Israel is the Little Satan) that they were all a bunch of delusional fools.
Had we been back on my native planet, I would have drug his skeevy carcass out back and pistolwhipped him halfway to next Sunday.
But alas, I live in CA, and that sort of cowgirl behavior is considered beyond the pale. It’s not “nuanced.” Never mind that he insulted me, in the effing Faculty Club, no less.
To any/all military reading Roy. Please don’t eat, drink, or smoke anything he has. It may result in you security clearence being revoked becuase of controlled substance abuse…
Also, we will not unite in “fear” of the terrorists, but will unite in the determination to rid the planet of them. I don’t fear cockroaches, I just step on them.
Dopegirl,
Yes, some of us don’t understand anarchy with the depth of your insight. Local government, no national structure, with its attendant monoploly on the use of force…sounds like Afghanistan or China during the warlord periods.
Socialism: when the fear of too much power accumulated in too few hands drives you to put all of the power IN ONE PLACE! (You then go on to criticize representative government for not being truly representative. This never seems to connect to “…and so maybe it wouldn’t be so wise to give government the keys to every blessed thing we have.”
But no matter, you’ve convinced me that your intentions are good, so everything will work out. Sign me up!
Dennymack
ROY:
It’s “power over” and “power to”
Socialism is a heapin’ helpin’ of power over, but ends up with little power to. Look for countries that have famines, and huge forced labor complexes.
Compare that to the US, where we don’t have that much power over, and we end up with power to:
Feed all our people, and all the others, too (If their leaders would let us.)
Go to the moon, twice.
Install more appliances in space than Sears installs in Nevada.
Invent whole new industries to feed the material demands of “enmiserated” workers
Create the most vibrant arts in (the history of) the world
And last, and appreciated least, enforce a degree of order in the world system that will allow the weaker nations of the world to prosper, if they can get their act together and stop fighting each other for “power over.”
Dennymack
denny, we moon-landed six times by my count…Apollo’s 11 thru 17 (13 had excuses).
Pearl, petulant verbal abuse is the last refuse of a scoundrel (despite popular wisdom). You’ve done yer best..let ’em eat carob. I applaud yer quasi-disdain for that institution (whatever it is) as I have a long-standing theory that most “professor’s” are just students who were afraid to leave school. If they knew more about what it is like to earn a living–build a future that is actual and not theoretical–they might (‘might”!) see that their cacoon is just an electric blanket powered by those whom actually engage the elementaries.
refuse=refuge, btw…but you knew that ;P
Spork:
Ok, so I didn’t get the facts straight. No, wait…that’s it, the other four landings were faked! Capricorn one! I have the secrets!
…sorry, I do get carried away.
Dennymack
Spork,
Your theory is spot-on. I suspect that many of my colleagues pursued advanced degrees because they secretly knew they’d never be able to hack it in the real world. I was a redneck blue-collar worker until I went back to college in 1991. I’m still a redneck, something that irritates the holy hell out of some people I know, particularly when I throw it in their faces as a “diversity” issue (ie, “Hey, I thought ya supported that there ‘diversity’ thing. Guess that don’t include anyone from Flyover Country.”) By and large, urban southern Californians hate (and fear) us hicks.
These are dark days for the elite. The chairman of the RNC is a Montanan. The Cheneys are from Wyoming. And then there’s that horrid squinty-eyed Texan in the White House. It’s simply too much…
You know what’s interesting about Washington? It’s the kind of place where second-guessing has become second nature.
You know, IN THEORY (and only in theory), communism is a good idea. “Everyone works the same amount, everyone has a warm place to live, everyone eats, and so on…..”, but the problem that is ingrained here is the leadership that will always find it’s way out of the abyss. No matter what form of government we have, there will always be people who (no matter if it is from the beginning, or a couple of centuries down the line) who get paid (and may I add, get paid WAY TOO MUCH) to sit on their butts and talk about how we should live, raise their pay any time they want (and come one, has there EVER been anyone in congress who voted against a pay raise) and have the best insurance and retirement on the planet. This is the reason communism has failed everywhere it’s been tried, there are people who say “I’m the one making sure everyone works, and everyone eats, so I don’t have to do the same job as you, and my house should be nicer, I’m protecting you!” This line of thinking is the same one that will always come out. Also, isn’t it funny, in a country where the very documents that “gave birth” to the government state that it is not only the right, but the responsibility of the people, to “throw out” and re-build the government when it ceases to work for the people, the people who try this are charged (and always covicted) of high treason? Just a thought.
I love you, dopegirl